Another great guestpost from Alex MacDonald:
Dreda Mitchell, the writer, broadcaster and teacher claimed in a BBC News television debate that she uses rap music to “teach children a variety of literary devicesâ€. The controversial debate focused on a shift in recent culture and featured historian, David Starkey and the author of ‘Chavs’, Owen Jones.
During the debate, Starkey claimed that British culture had totally transformed, “chavs have become black, whites have become black, and gangster culture has become the fashion.†These words caused widespread online debate, and provoked comments from Labour leader, Ed Miliband, who described Starkey’s argument as “disgusting & outrageousâ€. Starkey claimed that Black culture, including rap music, “glorifies†the rioting that the world witnessed in the UK recently.
But were the comments actually outrageous?
I had a very brief opportunity to interview Dreda Mitchell after her appearance on the BBC; I asked her what her thoughts were regarding rap music.
Alex: ‘are the lyrics “move bitch get out the way hoe†considered to be a positive literary device for children?
Dreda: “I use well chosen socially conscious rap lyrics and they work really well especially with re-engaging boys.â€
Alex: “Ok, well would you agree that some rap lyrics are harmful? Do these not affect the kids just as much as the productive lyrics you promote?â€
Dreda: “I use Nas’ song ‘I Know I Can’ which is great to use to teach the literary device of theme in writing.â€
Whilst I did not receive a direct answer to my second question, I did feel that any response would have been controversial. When we analyse rap, we can see that it does not have the cleanest record for being clean. However, rap music is essentially urban poetry (rhythm and poetry), and urban poets for the most part are known to perform about their lives and experiences. Would that therefore not make rap an excellent annotation of society and culture?
My initial thoughts from this conversation were that if lyrics need to be “well chosen†then clearly there are lyrics that need to be filtered out. These censored lyrics are usually condescending, derogatory and chauvinistic: a fitting example would be “move bitchâ€. If rap lyrics need to be so carefully selected, then clearly there is a lyrical problem with most rap songs. Or are the public just a bit prude when it comes to black music?
I have a keen ear for rap. It is one of my favourite genres of music, however, I have learnt to take the lyrics with a pinch of salt. As I am white and middle class it can be said that I am not a traditional target for rap music, but we aren’t really traditional with music anymore. In the contemporary era, everyone from age 1 to 100, and people from all backgrounds technically could listen to rap. It is consistently on the radio and its lyrics and image are gradually becoming more and more acceptable to the wider public.
So is Starkey right? Is the combination of Black music becoming more accessible, separate cultures coming together, and the influence of rap “glorifying†rioting enough to shatter communities? Does listening to rap subconsciously make me participate in Black culture, and is Black culture violent and if so, does that make me violent? What of the message it promotes?
Does rap music glorify rebellion and promote destruction or does it simply reflect? How do we feel about rap towards women? Does rap music create the illusion of women as objects? What about music from the rock band KISS, did that not also? What about Hustler magazines and the Miss World competition, all in their own right they have a way of creating the object illusion.
Rap music doesn’t tell me to stand up and riot, at least no more than rock music and certainly not as much as punk music and heavy metal. And who says that black people do not listen to other genres of music apart from rap? It is quite possible that some black people do not like rap music. So what then? Whose culture do they belong to? Are they less likely, according to Starkey’s theory, to commit criminal offence?
Although rap, rock and other genres of music promote certain problematic issues, they are all problematic yet necessary together. They all promote an integrated culture, they promote heritage and diversity, yet they are enjoyed by all. It is true, modern rap is not the easiest thing in the world to defend especially with such lyrics as “move bitchâ€. But suggesting that one culture’s heritage is the reason for the chaos is nothing short of ‘Ludacris’.
#1 by Random Lurking Scotsman on August 18, 2011 - 11:29 pm
It’s a typical tactic after something like the riots happens: blame popular culture. In the 50s they blamed rock and roll, in the 80s they blame video nasties, and now they blame rap music. I expect in the future they’ll find something else to scapegoat for a nice, simple explanation for very complex problems.
#2 by Douglas McLellan on August 18, 2011 - 11:50 pm
I have sympathy for Starkeys view if not that actual way that he said it.
Like Alex I also listen to rap (technically Hip-Hop & Grime covers the wider cultural aspects) but I have my own culture & background from which to draw upon. Therefore a lot of the lyrics that do glorify violence, gay hate & objectify women are “filtered” to an extent that I view them through an artistic prism as opposed to letting them influence and guide me.
The problem is that there are quite a few people now who have little other cultural influences to counter balance the messages that they take from the music that they listen to. Therefore it is so much more powerful to those who are influenced by it.
I totally agree that the riots were not caused by this type of music but I think that it is much harder to deny that it was the musical backdrop to the looting.
#3 by Doug Daniel on August 18, 2011 - 11:53 pm
I find it rather problematic even seeing the term “Black music” used interchangeably with rap. Black music covers jazz, soul, funk, disco, reggae, blues… a whole multitude of cultures. There is also far more to rap than the bits that draw most criticism, which should really be described as “Gangsta rap”. You won’t find a single song in the whole Public Enemy discography that talks about “bitches” or “hoes”, and the only songs that talk about “sex, drugs, guns and money” are the ones criticising the mainstream rubbish that passes as rap.
But as you say, music which might be more traditionally thought of as “white music” is just as bad. Many white bands have written songs glorifying drugs, but listening to Mr Brownstone by Guns ‘N’ Roses never made me want to pick up a needle and inject myself with heroin. So why should listening to “the rap singers” (as Stewart Lee would call them) be an excuse for people picking up a brick and lobbing it at a window?
The whole argument has racist undertones to it anyway, as it’s clearly trying to suggest that this is either the fault of blacks, or that the whites involved have been corrupted by black culture. Absolute tosh. This had nothing to do with the music people listen to. It’s about far more than that.
#4 by Alex MacDonald on August 19, 2011 - 2:38 am
I think that the arts are an excellent reflection of society, however many people think of musicians and the arts as a means to influence the public. For many people their role models are artists of various forms and many of those artists are involved in controversial behavior regularly.
For example, a few years ago many young women were sporting the Amy Winehouse Beehive hair style (mad behavior) because of a connection they felt towards her and/or her music. So to a degree there must be some sort of influence from celebrity to fan, right? But how deep can that connection go and on what issues?
Like you mentioned Doug, black culture is not limited to rapping, beat-boxing and scratching on the DJ set. And before I go on I want to point out that I think it is a shame that black culture is directly related to just rap nowadays. However the vast majority of the modern day youth do not listen to the other examples you gave. If those sorts of music were popular and well listened to then they would be on the charts consistently and well invested in. As it stands, the public much prefer to listen to musicians talking about polygamy, punching people who look at you the ‘wrong’ way & having the right amount of swagger! That is what the public want so that is what sells best. But if the arts simply reflect the world we live in then who/what brought the idea that punching people was cool? Could this therefore give us an insight into our own culture, maybe?
But if the arts do have a part to play in influencing people, then should we be worried by certain lyrics. Lyrics as explicit as M.E.T.H.O.D Man by the Wu Tang Clan. (Search for lyrics at own risk)
I am of course not pinning influence down to rap music, I mean to cover all forms of the arts as influential as one another. So my points raised should not be perceived to alienate rap as the sole contributor to public influence.
A few more avenues to explore maybe.
#5 by Doug Daniel on August 19, 2011 - 2:51 pm
Amy Winehouse’s haircut was mad behaviour?!? I can think of a few other things she did that might be more suited to the that description!
There are a lot of people in this country who have acceptance issues that lead them to copy whatever hairstyle or clothes they see in magazines, who see famous people sporting haircuts they would previously have called ridiculous and think “if I get that haircut, I can be cool too!” That’s a far cry from people resorting to violence in the streets because a rapper says “yo am gonna bitchslap sum hoes wit ma .44, lolz.”
The haircut thing is fed by our mass consumerist culture, where these people with self esteem issues are peppered with adverts and messages telling them that to be cool/accepted by others, you need to own this, wear this and look like this. As someone who has had three (barely) different hairstyles in 29 years, wears clothes until they have holes in them (and longer, if I can get away with it – just as well I liked extra-baggy t-shirts in 1998 or else they wouldn’t fit anymore…) and generally couldn’t give a toss how he looks, I find it extremely sad that so many people – friends included – feel the need to act that way.
What was my point again? Oh yeah, mass consumerism is far more to blame than any rapper talking about dissin’ sum hoes. Having said that, rappers (or are they “r’n’b” singers these days?) do like to pepper their lyrics with brand names far more today than they used to in rap’s glory days, going on about Rolexes, Bentleys and such like, so if there is any influence by rap music on impressionable impoverished youth, it’s to make them think that aspiration is about what material goods you own, and not how you conduct yourself in the world, or how you contribute to society.
So maybe there is some influence by rap music. But it’s more about what they looted, rather than why they started rioting.
#6 by Stuart Winton on August 19, 2011 - 11:48 pm
Good points, but perhaps your final sentence is instructive.
The ‘disorder’ wasn’t so much as ‘riot’ as mass looting, arson and general destruction.
The word ‘riot’ perhaps connotes some sort of political legitimacy and grievance of sorts, whereas what happened was more opportunism, at least as things unfolded.
#7 by Indy on August 19, 2011 - 6:51 am
i don’t know how anybody could even start to define what music is black and what music is white. We can say what artists are black and what artists are white, of course, but I don’t see how music can be defined in that way. It’s not a concept I can understand. David Starkey is a media whore who courts controversy in almost every situation. I don’t knw why the BBC insist on using him, it is not a good use of liicense payers money.
#8 by Stuart Winton on August 19, 2011 - 7:30 am
It would be wrong to wholly blame rap/hip-hop for what happened last week, but equally it’s ‘ludacris’ to completely dismiss such influences. Of course, it’s an old chestnut as to whether popular culture merely reflects or influences how people behave, but it’s surely a two-way process.
Where does our social conditioning come from? Many sources, obviously, but you can’t dismiss things like TV, music and computer games.
And it’s also slightly ‘ludacris’ for Doug to dismiss the influence of music on the basis that he didn’t inject drugs after listening to Guns ‘n’ Roses; I might as well dismiss the influence of marketing on the basis that I didn’t rush out to buy the new Persil or Ariel when I saw an advert for them on the TV.
However, Doug is right in that the post takes a reductionist approach to rap and/or black music, ie a bit like tarring all black poets (say) with the same brush. Rap/hip-hop is a genre that encompasses many attitudes. It was the particular sub-genre of gangsta rap that David Starkey was referring to.
Take the lyrics as a whole from the song the post refers to, for example. It’s not an isolated reference to a ‘bitch’ or ‘ho’, it’s the whole song.
Or take these examples from classic gangsta rappers NWA which I quoted on my blog. Or, better still, check out all the lyrics from their classic triumvirate of ‘Straight Outta Compton’, ‘F*** Tha Police’ and ‘Gangsta Gangsta’.
It’s unrelenting misogyny, violence and shootings, particularly against the police and other ‘niggaz’ (sic!).
Of course, to an extent it’s all a bit cartoonish, but that’s not to say it doesn’t influence (some) people and help to normalise misogyny and violence.
For example, have a read of the extract from an article by a black academic on my blog.
Or this when ‘Ludacris’ endorsed Barack Obama and dismissed Hilary Clinton as a ‘bitch’:
“As Barack Obama has said many, many times in the past, rap lyrics today too often perpetuate misogyny, materialism, and degrading images that he doesn’t want his daughters or any children exposed to,” said spokesman Bill Burton. “This song is not only outrageously offensive to Senator Clinton, Reverend Jackson, Senator McCain, and President Bush, it is offensive to all of us who are trying to raise our children with the values we hold dear. While Ludacris is a talented individual he should be ashamed of these lyrics.””
And before anyone plays the tiresome racism card, influences of this kind are hardly confined to gangsta rap. For example AC/DC’s Back in Black is one of the biggest selling albums of all time, but it’s very sexist, although not quite misogynist in the NWA mould.
#9 by Doug Daniel on August 19, 2011 - 3:39 pm
I’m not sure what’s sexist about Back In Black. Take one song for instance – Givin’ The Dog A Bone – where Brian Johnson sings about feeding his pet. Granted, he makes unfavourable comparisons to the Mona Lisa and Playboy stars, but to be fair, it would be a little odd if he did think his dog was good looking. A song espousing the virtues of caring for your dog is surely something to be applauded?
I am perhaps being a bit facetious saying Guns ‘N’ Roses never made me consider dancing with Mr Brownstone and that therefore this proves music has no influence in people’s behaviour. However, I feel calling NWA’s debut album “cartoonish” is perhaps missing the point a bit – when I listen to that album (well, those three songs plus Express Yourself, since the rest are a bit sub-par), I feel like I’m listening to genuine anger, rather than the false anger that has been used by every gangsta rapper since to try and sell their albums by provoking controversy. I’m not convinced that listening to songs like F*** The Police lead to bad behaviour – not unless you’ve felt genuinely persecuted by the police. Then again, I’m a rational human being who wouldn’t start rioting in the first place, so what do I know about how irrational people decide their behaviour?
On a side note, I’ve also seen the Public Enemy/The Clash and NWA/Sex Pistols parallels that you mention in your blogpost (I was delighted when I read Chuck D saying The Clash were one of his biggest influences). I’m also rather jealous of you for seeing The Clash live in Dundee.
#10 by Stuart Winton on August 19, 2011 - 11:39 pm
Doug
As regards ‘Givin’ The Dog A Bone” – very funny!
Yes, you could be right about my ‘cartoonish’ remarks as regards NWA. Maybe that’s the wrong word, but at times the album gives the slight impression that it’s not supposed to be taken too seriously, although I probably don’t know enough about the whole thing to comment.
And I’d agree that music doesn’t necessarily cause people to do things, but it’s maybe a contributing or reinforcing factor since, as I think we all agree, there are myriad influences on how people behave, although perhaps the disagreement is more as regards what the factors are and what weight should be given to each.
Incidentally, I also saw the Clash at the Ice Rink in Inverness, which was a rearranged gig that was cancelled in Aberdeen a few weeks earlier.
Didn’t know Chuck D was influenced by the Clash though. Mind you, since Public Enemy sampled the likes of Slayer then I’ll believe anything!
#11 by Alex MacDonald on August 19, 2011 - 5:13 pm
Thanks for the comments.
I agree that this post paints most with one brush. Whilst it is quite clear that there are many versions of rap, rap music on the wider spectrum remains relatively similar with its use of lyrics. Whether it be referring to violence, women, drugs or anything else, there is usually quite a few references to controversial topics.
The definition of gangsta rap is.
“Gangsta rap is a subgenre of hip hop that reflects the violent lifestyles of inner-city youths.”
This post analyzed violence in rap but it also looked at the exploitation of women. Even in modern day rap these topics regularly appear. Lollipop by Lil Wayne and Fast Lane by Eminem are all examples of new or relatively new examples of rap which isn’t gangsta rap and could be considered as controversial.
So no, I do not think ‘Gangsta’ rap is the only form of rap to point a finger at. I think all types of music have their own controversies.
#12 by Indy on August 19, 2011 - 5:48 pm
It’s an interesting discussion but I still find the notion of black music hard to fathom. Because if someome asked me to put rap music into a cultural bracket my first instinct would be to say American rather than black because most of the cultural references are American. And David Starkey referencing the Rivers of Blood speech – that speech was in response to the riots and assassinations which happened in the States in the late 1960s was it not? Certainly the obsessive materialism and fixation with cars and guns is American.
#13 by Douglas McLellan on August 19, 2011 - 8:04 pm
I suppose it depends on whether or not the difference is made on where a musical style originated and how it has changed. Hip Hop started as black music and is still dominated by both performers and audiences that are black. Grime is a UK off-shoot Hip Hop and key UK artists that perform this include Dizzee Rascal and Chipmunk. Where there are white artists they are performing the music in ways set out by the black artists.
I would argue that the UK has its own black music scene where the lyrics and sentiments are akin to their American counterparts.
#14 by Osbert on August 19, 2011 - 6:03 pm
Commons debate in 1842: “morals of children are tenfold worse than formerly” and “parts of the country suffering a “preposterous epidemic of a hybrid negro song”.
From The Economist
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2011/08/civil-disorder-and-looting-hits-britain-0