Today’s big sporting news has sent a shockwave across British football with Rangers moving closer to administration.
It would take the most generous of hearts from rival clubs to feel sorry for the club’s plight. Taking the lion’s share of tv money, winning qualification to lucrative European competitions year after year and often robbing Scotland’s other teams of their best talent only to leave them rotting in the reserves. Goodbye and good riddance?
Well, that is a bit harsh.
Scottish football is worse off without a strong Rangers Football Club being a part of it. The club has brought young talent to the fore, combined with world class stars being brought in from afar (Laudrup, Caniggia, Amoruso).
A silver lining from all of this is that a new Rangers could emerge from the ashes that has less ambition but more local players making up its squad. Airdrie United was back up and running soon after liquidation thanks to a buyout of Clydebank so there’s no reason why something similar can’t happen down Govan way. Every silver lining has a cloud of course and, at the end of day, the club has diddled the public out of tens of millions of pounds for some as yet unknown reason.
A finger of blame has to be pointed in the direction of Sir David Murray. A tax bill of ~£50m doesn’t accrue overnight and the finances surely can’t have been in order during Rangers’ Champions League heyday of Nine in a Row. A football club is a business before it is a sports team and no club is too big to fail. Sir David wouldn’t be the first knighted Scot to have taken a big company and ran it into the ground before jumping ship of course.
So what next?
Well here’s an idea out of left wing – Celtic could bail out Rangers and ensure their rival’s survival.
Granted, Celtic only made a £180k profit this financial year which is a far cry from the £50m that HMR&C we are due but they could contribute to a repayment schedule and, together with Rangers, make giant strides to making serious progress in the fight against sectarianism in Scotland. Rangers fan would have to find a grudging gratitude and Celtic fans would tap a hidden reservoir of sympathy for their rivals during their plight. After all, there but for the grace of Fergus McCann, go the Bhoys.
It would be nice if there was a coming together, and Scottish football would benefit from Rangers keeping going, but at the end of the day this news has to be taken in context.
This is a club in a footballing world that generally has fewer and fewer redeeming features as the years go by. Rangers fans looking to other sports to direct their passions might, despite what I’ve written above, be the best that can be hoped for from this sorry tale but, for now, and as a fairweather Celtic fan, I have to restrain my smirk and hope that Rangers gets back to where it belongs, second placed in the SPL season after season.
#1 by David Smeall on February 13, 2012 - 9:06 pm
Tell me this is a wind up – Celtic fans bailing out Rangers lol.Interesting you metion my home club Airdrie.They were thrown out the league completely,then refused re-enrty in favour of Gretna and the only way we ‘survived’ bas buying out Clydebank and rebadging ourselves as Airdrie Ver.2.So Rangers may need to buy another team then re-badge themeselves as Rangers 2 ?
#2 by Jeff on February 13, 2012 - 9:10 pm
Well, that does seem to be the precedent that has been set. I can’t imagine Rangers fans fancy going down that road, and I wager that deep down Celtic fans don’t see their favourite rivalry being taken away from them either. It is fanciful to suggest Celtic will bail them out, the Scottish Government is more likely to do so I suppose, but it would be a great show of unity!
#3 by FormerChampagneSocialist on February 13, 2012 - 11:38 pm
The only surprise is that anyone is surprised by this. Whyte was always going to go for a pre-pack admin or CVA. Why else would he have bought the Lloyds debt rather than pay it off?
#4 by CW on February 14, 2012 - 12:07 am
It was actually Dundee that brought Caniggia to Scotland. And they ended up in administration (twice) too.
#5 by Barney Thomson on February 14, 2012 - 1:15 am
“world class stars being brought in from afar (Laudrup, Caniggia, Amoruso).”
Caniggia??? Dundee’s no that far.
#6 by BM on February 14, 2012 - 7:24 am
My initial thought on hearing this was “Good.” But then I thought, what effect will this have on sectarianism? Despite successive governments battles to rid football of sectarianism, it’s better that sectarian rivalries are played out through sport than other, more aggressive avenues. If Rangers ceases to exist as a football club, it will also cease to exist as a pressure valve on sectarianism.
Also, Celtic would dominate the league until kingdom come – boring.
#7 by Doug Daniel on February 14, 2012 - 10:57 am
Nah, if anything the Old Firm’s existence perpetuates sectarianism. Youngsters brought up to use the Old Firm derby as a vessel of hatred for their fellow citizens. As for Celtic dominating the league leading to boredom, I’m afraid a monopoly is no more boring than a duopoly. More so in fact – you get rid of one of the Old Firm, and suddenly there’s an extra spot in Europe for the other teams to play for. It’s the dominance of the Old Firm that makes the SPL so boring, so anything that serves to shake that would stir up a bit of interest.
#8 by GMcM on February 14, 2012 - 11:40 am
I’m sorry DD but your first comment is false. I’m a season ticket holder at Parkhead and I used to sit near the travelling support and I can tell you, 100% hand on heart, that the problem with ethno-religious prejudice is deep rooted within society and not within football or between just two clubs in Glasgow.
I have heard songs/chants from teams such as Motherwell, Aberdeen, Partick Thistle, Dundee, Hearts and more. In fact I remember Dumbarton singing a few choice songs when we played them in the Scottish Cup under Gordon Strachan.
It’s an easy get out for non-Celtic/Rangers supporting football fans but it the argument holds no water.
The sooner people realise this the better prepared our society will be to properly diagnose the problem and then tackle it.
This is one of the reasons the Offensive Behaviour at Football Grounds……Bill is so useless.
#9 by Doug Daniel on February 15, 2012 - 9:40 am
This might seem like I’m contradicting my own point, but I think you’re reading too much into the songs and chants from travelling supporters. Regardless of the content of songs or chants from Aberdeen fans, for example, the fact is religion plays no part in our football allegiance. Any hatred that is felt is because you’re one of the big two that dominate the game and make it such a boring league, not because of your heritage. Whatever names our fans might call you, it’s just what we call Celtic fans, in the same way you lot would call us lovers of sheep. The closest I’ve ever heard a Dons fan come to slagging off a Celtic person because of Irish heritage is when footballers like Aidan McGeady and James McCarthy turn their back on their country of birth – and in that situation, it’s the player that’s making an issue of their heritage, not the fan. We just see it as another petty example of sectarianism.
There’s no ethno-religious prejudice in Aberdeen. As an Aberdonian who lived in Glasgow for a few years, I can tell you that I was quite taken aback by the difference when I first moved there. It just doesn’t exist here, which is why some people take offence at sectarianism being described as Scotland’s Shame – it’s seen as being very much a West of Scotland problem. That’s why the Orange Order’s membership is concentrated in that region. Those heidbangers wanted to have a march in Aberdeen years ago, and we made absolutely sure that didn’t happen, because we can’t be bothered with that crap.
Religion only plays a part in football allegiance in Glasgow. Even historically Irish teams like Hibs and Dundee United are no longer about which church you go to, but about which part of the city you live in or which team is more successful at the time. Besides, everyone knows Dons fans consider Celtic to be the lesser of two evils!
#10 by GMcM on February 15, 2012 - 10:14 am
DD this is the type of ‘burying your head in the sand’ and ‘not our clubs problem’ type of attitude that doesn’t help.
Let me address a couple of your points.
Celtic were formed for poor people, the people on the lowest socio-economic rung in Glasgow. This was predominantly Catholic and Irish, however the club has ALWAYS been open to supporters and players and staff of all religions, creeds, races etc. Rangers were already established and the support grew greater as Rangers were the club that were most likely to stand up to the new Irish-Catholic club. The reason people support Celtic and Rangers is mainly because that is who their parents and grandparents and greatgrandparents supported.
The suggestion that Aberdeen has no problem is also false. Even if I accepted that the scurge of ethno-religious prejudice was confined to the supporters of Celtic and Rangers for this to be tru also would mean there are no Celtic/Rangers supporters living in Aberdeen. Considering there are CSCs and RSCs from Aberdeen I think we can safely assume that is not the case.
The OO being concentrated in Central Scotland? Well yes, the majority of the population in Scotland is concentrated in the Central Belt.
DD I suggest you come down to Celtic Park for the next Celtic-Aberdeen game and listen to the songs/chants of your fellow Dons. ‘Sing in the chapel’ and ‘you’re in the wrong f*****g country’ are sectarian in the first instance and racist for the latter and Dons fans are guilty of singing these tunes.
Finally, your attempts to justify the legitimate choice of McGeady and McCarthy to select the country of their ethnic origin is shocking. You think it is sectarian for them to pick Ireland over Scotland? Why? They are Irish-Scots; they can play for either country. It was the SFA who failed these players and the FAI used the same rules the SFA have for many English born players to play in Scotland. I don’t have a problem with that as they are Scots-English and are entitled to pick Scotland over England a vice versa.
This isn’t just about Aberdeen though DD, this is a problem that is deep rooted in the psyche of Scots and until everyone accepts their own part in the problem we will never weed it out.
#11 by Doug Daniel on February 15, 2012 - 4:27 pm
You’re muddling things a bit though. CSCs and RSCs existing in Aberdeen are not proof of a sectarian problem in Aberdeen, just proof that there are an awful lot of glory-hunters. I know Aberdonian Celtic and Rangers fans, and they’re simply just not going to inflict violence on someone just because of their Catholic or Protestant background, mainly because their “support” is confined exclusively to the football team. My Celtic-supporting mate didn’t choose Celtic because he’s an Irish Catholic (which he isn’t), he chose them because they’re a successful team and he’s a little glory-hunter. Similarly, my Rangers-supporting workmate doesn’t have a hatred of people with Irish heritage, he just wanted to support an SPL team (although as he’s from Forfar he could have chosen Dundee United..)
Granted, those same supporters clubs will have genuine Glaswegian OF fans who have moved to Aberdeen and may indeed have sectarian views, but that’s because of their upbringing in Glasgow, not because of them moving to Aberdeen. People just don’t grow up in Aberdeen learning to hate Catholics or Protestants. We hate all Glaswegians equally (joke… sort of.)
As for the OO point, the majority of the population being in the Central Belt is by the by. The four county lodges are Ayrshire-Renfrewshire and Argyll, Central Scotland, East of Scotland and Glasgow. Almost by definition, it is a peculiarity of a specific area of Scotland.
I worded the McGeady/McCarthy point badly, admittedly. I know all about the SFA’s failings in regards to their rules about schools teams, and also that McCarthy claims he would have chosen Scotland if we’d offered him a call up first. My point was that this is the only time Aberdeen fans give a toss about Irish heritage, and it’s only because it comes at the detriment to the national team. You have to understand that to those of us who don’t mix football with religion, the sectarian issue is just ridiculous. It’s viewed as being a very simple-minded hatred, and when someone who is born and bred in Scotland seems to be saying “I’m Irish” just because he’s a Celtic fan, we just shake our heads. Granted, there is more to it than that – certainly with McGeady – but if you don’t know the details, that’s how it looks.
In 1989, only one club in Scotland still had a policy against signing Catholics, and it’s the same club which seems to be the only one of the 190+ top-tier clubs in the UK not to have ever signed a player from the Republic of Ireland. There’s your ethno-religious prejudice.
Incidentally, the “wrong country” chant you mention is to do with the fact that when you go to Celtic Park, you’re far more likely to see an Irish tricolour than a St Andrews cross. You might accuse Dons fans of missing the point and say it is celebrating your Irish heritage, but to us, it looks like Celtic fans don’t understand that they’re a Scottish team. Believe me, the same applies in regards to Rangers fans who walk about with England tops on, and we think both sets of fans are equally pathetic for it. It’s almost the exact opposite of sectarianism – “stop trying to pretend you’re different when you’re just the same as the rest of us.”
#12 by GMcM on February 15, 2012 - 5:18 pm
DD those are sectarian/racist views you’ve put down there. It is incumbant on the ignorant to learn about differences and for those with knowledge to teach them. Regardless of how it ‘seems’, those views are wrong. People need to be educated. You cannot practice tolerance if you seek to drive difference underground.
Trust me DD when Celtic-Rangers fans sing songs and chant slogans that are offensive there are people from all over Scotland joining in. This is a Scotland wide problem and as I said it affects a hell of a lot of clubs’ support.
If you find the cultural aspects of a football club ridiculous that is your choice but you have to appreciate the cultural heritage that most Celtic fans feel towards the club. It isn’t about being gloryhunters for most of the fans. It’s something more. It is a club that provided a safe place for people of Irish origin to come together when they first came to Scotland. It was then seen by many immigrants (Italian, Lithuanian, Polish etc) in the early 20th century as a safe place for immigrants (and catholic immigrants). There is a social dynamic to the Celtic support that doesn’t stop at town/city borders but follows the cultural links across the country and across the world.
DD the final paragraph is the type of thinking that permeates the support of many football clubs in Scotland. Some people hold these ‘harmless’ views while others sing and chant about it when they are confronted by something different.
For your information the Tricolour AND the Saltire fly above Celtic Park. The club’s mission statement states that Celtic is a Scottish Club proud of its Irish roots. That is the feeling shared by the vast majority of Celtic fans (those who are of Irish ethnicity).
The ‘stop trying to pretend you’re different’ line is appalling. This is what is wrong with Scottish society: people have to hide what they are and conform to the rest of societies cultural rules. A real democracy should embrace all the ethnicities, races, creeds, religions of its people and not seek to force those who are different to be ‘the same as the rest of us’.
For Celtic supporters it is clear. We are different. We are Irish-Scots, Polish-Scots, Lithuanian-Scots, Italian-Scots, Greek-Scots and so on.
Perhaps the problem with sectarianism is that too many people, far too many people, have failed to learn about those who are different to them and just wish for everyone to be the same.
I’m not Irish because I am a Celtic fan. I’m Scottish by nationality and Irish by ethnicity. I am proud of both countries, and proud to be associated with both. The majority of Celtic fans will tell you the same thing.
#13 by Craig Gallagher on February 15, 2012 - 8:37 pm
“You have to understand that to those of us who don’t mix football with religion, the sectarian issue is just ridiculous. It’s viewed as being a very simple-minded hatred, and when someone who is born and bred in Scotland seems to be saying “I’m Irish†just because he’s a Celtic fan, we just shake our heads.”
Perhaps you just worded it badly Doug, but what does “mixing football with religion” have to do with someone saying “I’m Irish?” I consider myself to be of Irish heritage, and it’s something I’m increasingly proud of as I grow older (and especially since I moved to Boston), yet I’m both a Celtic fan and an atheist.
There’s too much conflation of religion and ethnicity with tribal violence in this matter. Just because both are held up as an excuse doesn’t make them a cause. Social deprivation and a culture of excessive drinking are more likely culprits. That said, there does exist a poisonous, almost tolerated aspect to both supports, although I would argue that the blue have always received more leeway on that than the green.
#14 by Stuart on February 14, 2012 - 12:36 pm
I’d hope that this situation would bring about more discussion on what exactly is best for Scottish football.
And I’m afraid its not whether one team survives- its about how we make the league an interesting, competitive competition. Unless you’re La Liga or the EPL, the quality of football should not be put in front of competitiveness in a league, and its time the SPL realised that.
Or maybe its just about the SPL living within its means? We are, as any Nationalist will tell you, a small country, so we should treat our football league like another small European country. So let’s look to Austria, Switzerland, Belgium, Norway, Denmark, Sweden etc to see how they make their leagues work.
As for Celtic, well if Rangers cease to exist, please just let them go to the EPL. The SPL will be better for it.
#15 by Doug Daniel on February 15, 2012 - 9:59 am
Yes, yes, yes! I don’t even care about European football, I just want to see Aberdeen vying for trophies and not playing the same few teams anything between three and six times a season. Let’s get a proper pyramid structure in place like those other countries, with two top tiers of 16 teams and with the Highland League, East of Scotland League, South of Scotland league and the Junior leagues all integrated into the league system. Summer football as well.
Agree with your last line too – the carrot of guaranteed games against the OF is one of the main stumbling blocks towards getting the other SPL teams to agree to having a sensible-sized league. Remove the OF completely and you remove that whole argument.
#16 by Chris on February 14, 2012 - 9:43 am
Any particular club you would chose to sacrifice in order to save Rangers?
Do Rangers buy Hearts, Hearts buy Raith Rovers, Raith Rovers buy East Fife, East Fife buy Cowdenbeath whose No.1 fan, Donald Finlay, buys out Rangers???
#17 by Doug Daniel on February 14, 2012 - 11:17 am
I’ll see your “Celtic bail out Rangers” Jeff, and raise you a “Celtic and Rangers merger”. There would be no gratitude from Rangers fans if Celtic bailed them out, nor any sympathy from Celtic fans. What you would get is Celtic fans lording it over Rangers fans, leading to Rangers fans feeling even more hatred towards Celtic. Whereas if you merge the two teams, you destroy the single biggest symbol of division in Glasgow. It wouldn’t destroy sectarianism overnight, but it would certainly make it more difficult for bigots to teach their kids who to hate.
I certainly hope the Scottish Government do not step in and bail Rangers out. Rangers – more so than Celtic – are the main reason the SPL is so rubbish. They’re the uglier of the “Ugly Sisters”, it was their frivolous spending in the 80s and 90s that encouraged other teams to try to play catch-up (which proved hopeless and dangerous), and I would even say they have possibly been the bigger culprit in terms of buying opposition players and then dumping them on the bench for all eternity. Now they’re in trouble? Excuse me if the only tears I shed are tears of laughter. They didn’t seem so concerned about the rest of us when they were talking of moving to England.
Rangers should be left to die, and then if they must they can return to the league as a new team. But they must NOT be allowed direct entry into the SPL, which I fear would be the case, with this “oooh the SPL needs Celtic and Rangers” rubbish that is being touted around given as the reasoning. If we prop them up, they’ll just do it again. If there’s one thing we need to learn from the financial crisis, it’s that these type of people never learn unless forced to learn the hard way.
(Disclaimer: I’m a bitter Dons fan.)
#18 by Allan on February 14, 2012 - 7:46 pm
To be fair to Rangers, it was Celtic that were the noiser of the two about moving to the EPL.
Of course the question should be raised, who would the gloryhunters support?
(Disclaimer: I’m a season ticker holder at Greenhill Road)
#19 by GMcM on February 14, 2012 - 11:47 am
Sorry Jeff but this isn’t Celtic’s mess. Rangers provided no assistance to Celtic in the early 90s. I know that sounds petty but if you look at the facts:
Celtic almost went bust and recovered thanks to a good business model that continues to thrive today. Rangers seeing the prospect of a stiffer challenge from their rivals pursued an illegal (possibly depending on the tax case ruling) course to maintain an edge and effectively buy 9 in a row and then a treble in 99/00.
This mess is all because Rangers owners couldn’t face up to telling their support that they might not win the league every year. They would prefer to meet the expectations of their fans at any cost rather than work within their means and improve their business model.
Rangers fans didn’t care when they were winning the trophies and didn’t ask the questions that needed to be put to the board.
#20 by Indy on February 14, 2012 - 1:13 pm
I think before people say Rangers should be allowed to go down there needs to be some assessment of what kind of economic and employment black hole that might leave in the south west of Glasgow.
I suspect the club may be rather lucky in having their catchment area represented by two ladies, both with a reputation for being pretty tenacious in defence of their respective constituencies, one of whom is the Deputy First Minister and one of whom is the Leader of the Scottish Labour Party.
#21 by Barbarian on February 14, 2012 - 8:10 pm
Thankfully we are getting a reasonable debate here. I’ve just read comments elsewhere, where unbelievably (or should I say as expected), some people have commented that this is:
“the fault of the union”
“another union dividend”
“a good reason for independence”.
And even better: Harry Redknap got off with his case because he is the next England manager.
One comment implies that it serves Rangers right for supporting the Union!
It has bugger all to do with independence. The people that make such comments – if they are SNP members – are an embarrassment. (rant over!)
The tax avoidance scheme by Rangers is the fault of those who ran the club. Arsenal ran a similar scheme and coughed up.
If there is one thing that needs dealt with, it is tax avoidance. Vodaphone got off with £4 billion. However, £400 or £4 billion, it is money that is owed to the taxpayer and should be paid.
The Scottish Government dare not lift a finger to help the club. Provide assistance to anyone who may lose their job, absolutely. I do not think any such support will be forthcoming.
Rangers FC is a business. And many businesses are going bust. It’s nothing to gloat over, but nor should there be any special consideration given.
#22 by Indy on February 14, 2012 - 11:40 pm
Well of course the SG isn’t going to provide money but I’m sure there will be people from the SG and also the Council doing what they can to help find a new buyer if possible. I don’t think they will treat Rangers any differently to any other business, if they can help to protect jobs they will. It’s really a bit childish I think to look at this in terms of whether you like Rangers or not. I don;t but so what? It’s not necessary to “support” a particular business to try and protect the employment they provide.
#23 by Ross Day on February 14, 2012 - 10:42 pm
As a lifelong Dundee fan i was ready to rant about you forgetting Caniggia was Dee first!
GMcM – You claim you hear sectarian chanting from all these clubs, including Dundee, i can assure you as a lifelong season ticket holder, there is no sectarian problem, be it songs or chants from the fans, i imagine the same applies to most of the clubs on your list. Because we sing a variant of the Hello Hello chant people who don’t actually know the words being sung will straight away make connection with Rangers version, even though there are no sectarian connotations with our version.
On topic…
Admin is a horrible business, been throught it twice, the sleepless nights, the constant worry, throwing more money you can ill afford to give to keep your team right, going straight from work to fundraising meetings, shaking buckets at games etc It aint nice, but it does bring a sense of togetherness to a support, with one common goal to aim for.
However…
For the benefit of Scottish football, i would love to see Rangers go to the wall. I think with no more Rangers, Celtic wouldn’t hang about to long. This would solve all of Scottish footballs many ills imo.
1, The main bulk of the Sectarian problem within football will be gone, make no mistake from the late 80’s both halves of the Old Firm have used this religious divide in glasgow to there benefit, only recently have they taken steps to try and halt it.
2, A competitive league would remain, fans are more likely to come out to see their team if they know they have a reasonable chance of success and something to fight for
3, The ridiculous set up of the SPL can be over hauled, the 11-1 voting system was set up to allow the OF clubs free reign over Scottish football
4, The money would be shared equally among clubs, even if their is less of it an equal playing field, will make the league fairer
5, People say the standard would drop, so what? Im sure most football fans would rather watch a poorer standard of football if it was more exciting and entertaining because there were a realistic chance of achieving success
Scottish football has been on deaths door for years, slowly strangled from the late 80’s into submission, its boring, uncompetitive, unfair. This will never change while the OF hold the cards and make all the calls, so for me, as much as i feel for the fans (thats the true ones who will bother to help in their hour of need) i think for the good of Scottish football, this could be a great opportunity.
#24 by GMcM on February 15, 2012 - 11:45 am
Ross. I know the words used by most of the other clubs who sing a version of Hello Hello. The version by Dundee fans is not sectarian to my knowledge. I didn’t say that was the song I’ve heard Dundee fans sing. I have heard other songs/chants from fans of Dundee and they are sectarian/racist towards Catholics and people of Irish ethnicity. Perhaps some fans of these clubs don’t realise this when they sing/shout but it doesn’t change what those songs/chants are.
#25 by Ross Day on February 14, 2012 - 10:48 pm
On another note, Dundee were chased from the HMRC for an overdue tax bill of 250k, what took them so long to chase Rangers for the 9million that hasn’t been paid since Mr Whyte took over at the club?
I agree with Stuart and Doug Daniel. This is probably close to most fans of other clubs sentiments
#26 by Craig on February 14, 2012 - 10:55 pm
Type your comment here
I agree with the rest but I’d point out that Vodafone didn’t “get off” anything. Quite the opposite in fact, they paid almost £2 billion when there was no legal requirement to do so.
The claims of £6 billion came from a clueless journalist at Private Eye and the story grew from there despite the amount in dispute only being around £2 billion. Vodafone challenged the case at the Special Commissioners and won. HMRC then appealed to the High Court and lost. They appealed to the Court of Appeal who said “maybe but we really need to ask the European courts”. At the point Vodafone were forced to settle to remove the provisions from their accounts.
Not long afterwards, the EU declared that our Controlled Foreign Company rules (the system under which HMRC were chasing Vodafone) were incompatible with the EU law. Just as Vodafone had argued. By then it was too late.
Incidentally, the EU has criticised the UK yet again for failing to provide proper transistional arrangements when they abolished the “remedy for repayment of taxes paid in mistake of law”. We’ve now been referred to the European Court of Justice over the matter.
If we are going to get serious about this subject, then perhaps we should begin with a clear understanding of the difference between “tax avoidance” and “tax evasion” and the facts as presented in the Courts, not some biased illiterate journalists/politicians interpretation. That goes for Rangers (where incredibly some people believe they should get special treatment) just as much as it does for cases like Vodafone.
#27 by Observer on February 15, 2012 - 12:48 am
I thought Vodafone got off with 6 billion? I don’t think Rangers can go to the wall & if needs be I expect the SG to intervene because it is a Scottish business. Most of the comment threads I have read have just been full of the usual we sing proddy songs which are not worse than your IRA songs & vice versa. Yawn. We are talking about a big team in Glasgow & the other team needs them commercially. It would not make sense to let Rangers go so it won’t be going, it will just be a lot of bargaining.
#28 by GMcM on February 15, 2012 - 10:22 am
The most important thing for me here is that as a taxpayer I want Rangers to survive. As a Celtic fan I’d love the humiliation of a new Rangers starting in the 3rd Division. However this would be the worst case scenario.
The best case is that Rangers survive and pay off HMRC and keep more jobs. It would be a disgrace if Rangers managed to avoid paying what they owe and fleece the taxpayer while being able to set up a debt free phoenix club that will reach the top of Scottish football within a few years.
I think the political statements made by all parties have failed to make this point. Rangers are in this situation because they have failed to pay tax. The tax should be paid and therefore Rangers must survive for that to happen.
#29 by Angus McLellan on February 15, 2012 - 12:50 pm
You’re going to be disappointed I think. Well, we all are really.
The £9 million is unlikely to be paid in full and the same is true of any judgement in the EBT case. And a “phoenix”, debt free of course, is just about the only conceivable end state.
#30 by GMcM on February 15, 2012 - 3:06 pm
I completely agree Angus. I think this is the only way out of the mess Rangers are in. A few Rangers fans in my work think they should be relegated to the 3rd Division but this won’t happen as the majority of the SPL would suffer financially and won’t let it happen.
#31 by Angus McLellan on February 15, 2012 - 6:26 pm
The SFA will have a say since they issue licenses and so too would UEFA. And even the SPL clubs would want something – at very least a revision of the voting rules and a change in the division of money – for their trouble. but I can’t see anything like that happening – and even the 3rd Division or the West Super League might seem improbable – if the outcome is a “pre-pack” and the current owners end up in control at Ibrox after the dust settles.
#32 by LJ on February 15, 2012 - 10:33 am
Wow post 8 that is the most archetypal Old firm response you can get, “it’s no our fault its yousâ€! For a long time now Celtic have buried there collective heads in the sand over the massive problems at their club content that they aren’t as bad as Rangers and while that may well be true its hardly great yard stick by which to judge yourself is it? Also stereotypical OF as it betrays a massive ignorance of other SPL fans, the usual that everyone in Scotland is seceretly either really Celtic or Rangers fan(seriously why do so many old far honestly believe everyone in Scotland support one of them?). As to Aberdeen ( Dundee Untied or Hibs) fans singing billyboys aye right pull the other one it’s got bells on it.
As for the way forward for Scottish football, there is massive opportunity now to break the straggle hold the gruesome twosome have had on this country for years. Step one the voting structure which has allowed the OF to dictate terms to the rest of the SPL for years needs to be binned to make any change it should be simple 8-4 rather than at present where any two clubs can affectively veto any changes. Then on to the changes themselves as it stand the drop in prize money in the SPL is biggest between not 1st and 2nd but 2nd and 3rd this needs to be changed and more equal share handed to all clubs. Also the games shown need to change the OF are protect from the down side of live Football on the telly as generally only derby matches are broadcast live this helps ensure OF home crowds remain while the smaller teams tend to suffer the OF too would have this problem case in point being Ranger recent cup exit to Dundee untied watch by merely 17,000 fans far whack of whom where Arabs. After those changes had been made I’d then look at trying to establish some sort of wage cap to stop clubs chasing the dream and landing themselves in bother, and then perhaps look at a format change to inject some excitement into the competition the obvious one being the introduction of playoffs if not for the title then at least relegation.
@Doug 12 merger might help tackle Sectarianism but it would not be good for Scottish football. Jeff your idea would not help at all as both set of fans would resent it.
As for what should happen to Rangers that obviously depends for me seeing the above happen is by far the most important issue, If Rangers can get out of Admin on their own all well and good. If however they have to be liquidated and form a new club it’s vital for the integrity of game that they aren’t allowed straight back into the SPL if that happens they only fair thing would be to re-admit them into the 3rd division. The added benefit this would have is that even a greatly reduced Rangers in terms of fans would still be a pretty big shot in the in terms of crowds for side like East, Peterhead and Dumbarton etc.
#33 by GMcM on February 15, 2012 - 11:55 am
If I have given you the impression that I believe this isn’t a Celtic-Rangers problem but is a problem for everyone else then I apologise (but I’m pretty sure I never made any claim like that).
The point I am making is that the problem of ethno-religious prejudice (sectarianism) is far reaching and infiltrates the very fibre of our society. It is not simply a problem for Celtic-Rangers and their fans as the problem stretches beyond those fans and those two clubs.
Again, why the reference to Billy Boys? I never said anything about this song. There are more offensive songs/chants than this.
If anything I think there is a lack of understanding of the problems within society by other fans. For too long the media have perpetuated the myth that this is a West of Scotland, Glasgow, Celtic-Rangers problem and fans of other clubs have never been under the spotlight and had to face up to their own failings in this matter. It would help, greatly, if fans of other clubs took stock of their own actions and rooted out the behaviour that seems to be attributed only to the usual suspects.
#34 by GMcM on February 15, 2012 - 11:59 am
Anyway, I was only correcting the false premise that this is a Celtic-Rangers problem and that no Rangers/Celtic=no sectarianism.
The point of the post is about the future of Rangers, the tax owed and the future of Rangers in the context of the future of Scottish football.
I apologise for creating a situation where the comments have been sidetracked but I make no apology for correcting completely false assertions.
#35 by Barbarian on February 15, 2012 - 3:02 pm
Type your comment here
I have no real preference for any football team, although I do like watching the game.
The Scottish Government absolutely cannot bail out Rangers. I think it would be tantamount to political suicide. A construction firm has gone into administration – will the SG bail them out?
The key issue is that Whyte may be able to fold the club, then resurrect it under a new name, with everyone bar himself out of pocket. There has to be a change in legislation to prevent directors such as him asset stripping, since that is precisely what he is doing. He has no intentions whatsoever of repaying HMRC.
#36 by Indy on February 15, 2012 - 5:03 pm
The SG can’t give them any money because apart from anything else they don’t have it.
But the economic value of Rangers/Celtic to the Scottish economy and particularly the Gasgow economy is valued at around £120 million. So there is a lot more than a football team at stake. Particularly in today’s economic climate. I am sure that government at both Scottish and Glasgow level will be doing what they can to make sure a buyer or buyers are found.
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#37 by jak on February 23, 2012 - 9:18 pm
A good debate going on here.
I would like to say, and not because im a celtic fan, that a lot of secretarian problems come from fans outwith Scotland. Both rangers and celtic have large traveling supports and it is some of those that create the biggest problems. But there are also issues with the SFA, who can forget the e-mils that were doing the rounds throughout the SFA and the referees caught lying, sorry i mean correc ting there story! Dallas saga
As for the scottish government bailing out rangers, O dont think this would be a good move for them, as other companies may have grounds for the goverment to bail them out as they would have set a precedance which could not be continued. Just because a company is worth more than another is no grounds for bailing them out.
I do also think that a lot of the blame not only lies with Murray and rangers themselves but with the SPL/SFA.
There should be a cap on the amount a club can spend e.g.
50% of turnover on wages / signings
15% on youth development
15% on ground upkeep and refurbishment
10% to an independant body to act as an emergency fund for teams with the remaining being retained by the club for any other buisiness. I also agree that playing each team 4 times is boring and the split is a joke as a team in 7th could end up with more points than the team in 6th.
The league should be reformatted with the last club being relegated, the second last club in a play off with a 16 team league structure. It might be poor at the start, but in a couple of years Scottish football would be all the better. Also I think Scotland should lead the way with independant referees not tied to the SFA and their pathetic rules.